Gear6

I would love to see how much power it makes. Also how much water is needed to make it run?

Metal fatigue, anyone?

I can see one major flaw in this design, the rapid heating and cooling of the engine would likely wear it out far faster than normal.

Genius. Goodonya Bruce.

It always seems so simple after the fact, but it takes experience and wisdom to see the wood for the trees.

Interesting article. I very much enjoye it :)

Wow, my friend who is knowledgeable with cars says that this is revolutionary, but it will be a few years until a six-stroke Prius rolls out. I hope this guy got a patent.

Forget fatigue. New materials will allow this kind of fast pace thermodynamic exchanges.

Watch out, Bruce. I know a lot of Detroit businessmen and Arab sheikhs who will want to put a bounty on your head.

You may as well sell them the patent now and watch it disappear just like all of the other thousands of "better designs" that are sitting on the shelves of oil company warhouses.

Can u say "rust!"

f-you car-guy, i hope he _didn't_ get a patent, so that his invention might actually be usable!

hahahaaha. i always get a kick outta these conspiracy theorists who talk about how "Detroit" is out to prevent anything that will improve fuel efficiency. What's the motive? Arab oilers, i can see have a motive, but Detroit? C'mon, they sell cars. cars that run on conventional engines or cars that run on new-fangled 6 cycle engines. WTF do they care as long as people are buying CARS?
Detroit has NO incentive at all to "hide" this technology. Arab oil companies really don't either. Oil will still be required, just not as much for each vehicle. With the growth rate in China and teh rest of the underdeveloped world, they'll still be selling as much of the black goo as they can pump out of the sand. Something like this just lets them do it for a few more years.

How well it works will depends on what alloys are used in the pistons and cylinders. Between oxidation and thermal cycling they'll have to use something besides straight steel or aluminum alloys.

No Finite, F-You. If this guy doesn't get a patent then someone else will, and do whatever THEY want with it, including forcing him to stop working on it.

There are a lot of great ideas about improving car engines, but many of them are not cost effective yet, others are very difficult to get reliable enough. For example Saab's engine with changing compression etc. For a number of reason 6 stroke engile such as this will cost much more than 4 stoke analog. The big guestion is, will it be woth the extra $ ?

Small quantities of water added to fuel can make internal combustion engines more efficient, but only when efficiency is measured as miles per gallon of petrochemical fuel, not per gallon of liquid pumped into the engine. It operates by the same steam engine carnot cycle as this 6-stroke.

Come on folks, buy a clue. Dont you know that engines are lubricated with oil? Lets see here a cylinder wall coated with oil, rusting out due to steam? pffft. Do you even know the by products of the internal combustion engine? Lets see here, theres your carbon-based crap, CO2, CO, and many variants there of when there is incomplete combustion and, as well as other hydrogen-carbon-oxygen combinations and...WATER! Ever seen a rusted muffler? Think its because of the water in the street? Guess again, the rust comes from those wonderful short little drives to the store down the block where your exhaust system doesnt get hot enough to evaporate all of the wonderful acids and WATER thats pumped out of your engine.

I do see some interesting potential here, but some equally disturbing questions and problems as well.

1) It introduces an additional level of complexity for fueling. Now need two vs one.

2) As was already asked, what is the level of fresh water consumption?

2a) How much added weight will be required to supply water and what loss in fuel efficiency due to added weight is lost? How are you going to protect the water from freezing in cold weather?

3) What kind of emissions does this thing make? Currently my mind is telling me SMOG & Acid Rain (an I'm not an enviro whack job)

4) particulate discharge from exhaust now going even more rapidly into the drainage (aka water system) would seem to require the need to collect the toxic discharge prior to emission (which means added complexity AND disposal/maint requirements)

While the idea is intriguing, unless there are answers to these issues, it seems like it's pioneering the trailing edge of innovation. I'm more inclined toward clearner burning fuel systems such as the Hy-Drive or CHEC whichever actually makes it into production.

But I'm certainly willing to keep an open mind.

sourlemmon, I suggest you check out "Tucker a man and his dream" Yes it is a movie, but based on a lot of facts. I laughed the other day when I saw a car head light system that turned as the car did to illuminated the corners... oh next detroit might use seat-belts...

An article about a genius followed by comments from the peanut gallery.

Proper seals and piston components would negate rust issues. Corvidae is right about alloys. Great creative thinking.

A couple of questions:
1.) Water is a byproduct of combustion, so why is the addition of water into the system any more corrosive than the spent charge?

2.) Coolant (basically water) is circulated through a conventional engine block, so why is the potential for problems due to rapid heating and cooling any worse for this setup than a conventional one?

3.) Wouldn't the system fairly quickly reach stasis, so there won't be a problem with rapid heating and cooling?

4.)What does one do in the winter? Seems one would need antifreeze, which means one couldn't simply spew steam out into the world. One would instead need to re-condense the steam (water vapor and antifreeze), thus making a closed system. Seems this might be done without TOO much troulble, and the expansion of the steam in the cylinder should greatly cool it anyway.

Hmmm. Or not. Condensing out the exhaust is problematic. What about a separate, closed-system steam generator/recovery system that drives a supplemental motor, as with a parallel hybrid or a turbocompounding system?

WOW!!! 6 Strokes!!!

Anyone remember a guy by the name of Tucker?

Will a cool cylinder make it difficult to properly (efficiently and cleanly) burn the fuel?

Not worried about heating cooling as the average would be lower than normal.

For the materials failure crowd: necessity/mother of invention thing isn't it?

What's going to spur development of the required material more than the need?

intersting. when a fuel injector on your car clogs, it runs a little rough. when a water injector on one of these engines goes south, you burn out that piston. maybe not such a good idea.

Posting #8,Mr.Anonymous,who knows "a lot of Detroit businessmen and Arab sheikhs" Ha Ha, as if.

Numbnutsmcgoo makes excellent points. Also Schwee's "stasis" is surely correct; the block will act as a heat reservoir so that temperature cycling would be moderated.

With respect to Rick's point about small quantities of water added to fuel, I would imagine that optimal combustion would be difficult to achieve under those circumstances, since the temperature would necessarily be lowered during each combustion stroke rather than between combustion strokes.

I have no doubt that metallurgy can provide an appropriate cylinder liner, but what about the cost, including energy costs of mining, transportation and fabrication for that item?

show me the thermodynamic cycle analysis

Keep in mind that water does not necessarily need to be cold. A thermo-spectral graph probably wouldn't be that variant.

Seems like a good concept, especially in a slower rpm engine. More time to "soak" up the combustion heat to make steam, after the combustion event and before bdc. Can't wait to see some solid data! Jerry at http://www.freeengineinfo.com

This man is a genius! I very much adore him. The solution is so simple, yet so brilliant!

As far as I understand, the conversion is quite simple:
- slow down the camshaft from 1/2 to 1/3 speed
- reshape the "otto-engine part" of the camshaft
- add a cam for releasing the steam
- add a direct injection of water

... and that's just about it! Why didn't I think of this :)

Hmmm, ceramics, anyone? He should talk to Kyocera... :)

No more problem with metal fatigue.

intake water injection has been around for years. improves, preformace and milage. water damage? you'll get more from precip and road salt on the exturnals. check out the local truck and tractor comp pulls. wild

Better watch out! I hear Detroit may buy the design and put it on the shelf next to the 200mpg carb!

A few points for the peanut gallery:

The currently in use water addition to the fuel is actually added to the air after it is compressed by a turbo to get a cooling effect, so it is completely vapor before it reaches the engine.

The water dropplets would still cause problems with the engine. The water would have to be distilled water to keep from having scale deposits, and distilled water is very corrosive. They may be able to put in addatives to inhibit rust, but these addatives will have to withstand the combustian cycle without becoming corrosive or smog

Ceramic is a good idea for the heat, but i am afraid that it would shatter under the stresses that would be aplied

This is a good idea, but I am not sure that this will be viable for anything other than a water pump engine.

High impact ceramics are very advanced, no reason to assume that an engine cannot be made from them. As for metals themselves, we have significant knowledge of alloys from space programs, no reason there to think that we cannot use it for simple car engines.

Great invention - I hope he gets somewhere with it. But of course, only when gasoline reaches $6/gallon+ in the US (just like in pretty much the rest of the world) will anyone actually do anything with it, by which time the Europeans and Asians will have had a working version for a long time.

This is a great idea but already thought of just in a different application. The Air Force has been injecting water into the the engines of the B-52 for many years. It is mainly done to increase power on take off allowing a lot of planes to get off the ground in a short period of time. Interestingly enough the engine suffered no premature failure or problomatic rusting. Not to mention that the benefit of water is that when split into its basic elements one ia an excelerant the other is flammable.

Call it the OTTO-STERLING engine! Maybe.

Rust in the cylinders? If that is so - then how did steam engines ever manage? They were all cast iron cylinder and piston. And they had nothing But water in their cylinders.

PHM

If operation description is correct, steam conversion is a product of both residual heat from ignition, plus heat from compression. Both are already present in current 4 stroke designs. Should not require any special alloys, as temperature variation would stabilize quickly. Check comment on enging condition after operation for an hour. Don't knock it yet!

If we have a petrol version and a diesel one on it's way, I can't see that it will take much to produce version to run on ethanol-based fuel! That certainly would upset the oil barons.

Wow,

A promising technology and so many cynics. The challenge of new ideas is proportional to the number of naysayers. We should all be saying, "Yay, lets pump some money into more research!"

I love the idea! What about the mixing of water with the oil lubricating the cylinder walls? Mixing oil with water makes milk!

Congradulations, I realized the posibility of steam assisted six stroke cycle, several years ago. It is the smartist method of dealing with the excess heat, put it back throught the engine. Bruce, don't let the machanically inept hackleres bother you. There is a solution to every machanical dilemma. And as for the imaginary ones in the comment sheets, well, pay them the credit the're due.

What about heat ?

To all you experts on corrosion and metalergy, just remember, every reciprocating steam engine built from back in the civil war era up 1945, as well as all the steam recriprocating pumps built even today, use cast iron cylinders. Steam is not corrosive, it's a gas and does not result in rust. This guy may have something, what he is doing is converting some of the energy that is wasted by cooling the combustion chamber, into work. This ultimately improves the thermal cycle of the device. I seem to recall that the internal combustion engine has a thermal efficiency of less than 40%. This means we waste more energy than we use. This invention seems to have a strong theoretical basis for improved efficiency, now it just needs to be economically viable.

Those who say it cannot be done are always standing in the way of those that are doing it.

sir,
we are doing sixstroke engine as project work in our college,we are modifying the hero honda engine for this purpose.

if we succed with that we will wail u sir

Great idea for diesel 18 wheeler and the rest of us.
But, the IRS will not allow thier tax paying gas consumers to consume less gas per mile. Convence the IRS they will not loose any tax revenue and your six stroke will sell world wide.

Bruce is brainstorming a new engine that could greatly improve our children's (possibly our) lives. Many people were adding water injection here during both gas crunches. In the winter, they disconected, and brought the water tank/hoses inside. Saved some gas, stopped doing it because of the extra work. What's with all this "It will never work because "I" think "I" see a problem on the horizon". Exhaust rust - go stainless, low rpm - gear it up, and use it to charge a battery pack like a hybrid, metal can't handle the change in temp - we on a regular basis fire up our cars at 40F below, run to the store, and shut them off again (-40 to over 1000 degrees and back over and over).

Where would we be if Otto had listened to all who downright mean to him, treating him as the village idiot and calling him worse.

We need to give Bruce a respectfull bow as we clear his way on the sidewalk.

I wonder if this would work on a rotary...

One of the big problems with rotaries is the amount of heat transfer to the rotors and housings... 'charge-cooling' with steam might work to make this an advantage rather than a drawback.

Very interesting.

the materials can be covered with a thin strip of non-corrosive material something like paint.

Water kept at a high pressure in a deposit can NOT freeze easily.

this extra weight can be compromised by the removal of the existing cooling system.

as the today's tendency is to used features from aerospace industry to cars 2 or more injectors can be used. if one fails the other works.

How about a hydrogen engine whose by product is water and have that water cycle back into the cylinder some how.

i think Bruce Crower concept is very good.but the use of water can get problem. becouse of initially the engine required more temp to get ingnition of fule . due the water the tenp. of engine is veru low & we can't get proper running of engine.

Before you go off saying that metal will not take the repeated temperature change. Go through the trouble of finding out the number of calories to vaporize a certain amount of water, and the amount of space steam takes up as compared to water.

I seem to recall that water undergoes an increase in volume x 1600 upon being vaporized.

The sleeve, rings, etc must be an allow. Corrisive acids WILL BE FORMED.

Hai ... you have done agreat job .Why shouldnt you include some animations so the user or students like me can understant the whole process at a glance...

Is 6 cylinder / 6 stroke diesel generator are avaialable in market? what is advantage over 4 stroke engine ? List of manufacturar ?

this means you put the fuel mixture in ....and after its exhaust you introduce steam in the same cylendir....how is this possible...its highly corrosive...

there is no use in economic point of view

Look at fuel prices -they keep changing and energy reserves keep decreasing, efficient methods of energy conversion and utilization should be used.All new designs are realy going to cut pollution.And all the car giants will have to start use engines like Bruce Crower has made. If overall energy utilization at the national level has the priority, driving a heat pump by an electric motor is not the best method, due to the inefficient conversion of fossil fuel into electricity at the power station. Therefore, engine-driven heat pumps have been preferred using gas engines, diesel engines or gas turbines. The output of the heat pump is expected to be about 65% higher than electrically driven systems, based on the same amount of fuel used. The advantages of these systems are mainly due to local generation of shaft power and providing engine heat that can be usefully employed , by recovering part of the waste energy of the gases and engine coolant. Such systems can operate continuously in comparison with solar systems.. Primary energy was found to be saved by about 50% when using engine-driven heat pumps. The superiority of the gas turbine system was quite clear. This would be a kind of alternative to hybrid engines on strong point of CO2 emmision and global warming ,don't you think? All that and some more I have pointed in my dissertation for Thermodynamic analysis of exhaust gas. In case some one interested or may need information for your researches ,you may look in here: http://www.coursework4you.co.uk/sprtengi3.htm

To keep from freezing, how about adding alcohol to the water just like that blue stuff you use in your windshield washers? If that won't work the folks in the frozen north have a couple of solutions, an electric heater in parallel to the block heater they already plug-in during cold weather or just put it in the garage. As a licensed PE (Mechanical) I congradulate Bruce on his idea and hope he gets it on the market soon so I can buy one.

I'm not sure some of you guys fully understand how this works. Fuel can be mixed with a carb as in his test engine or directly injected which would be more optimal. When the piston reaches the top, it is ignited (spark or diesel) as with any other engine. The piston goes down but on it's way back up again, the exhaust valve does not open. It stays closed. Once again the piston reaches the top. Now the water is injected. Bruce did this by using a diesel engine's fuel injection system. The water is not mixed in with the fuel. Now the expansion of the water forces the piston back down. The next time up the exhaust valve opens. For every 3 full revolutions, you get 2 power strokes. One powered by fuel and one by water. You are getting twice the power with half the fuel. The only issue I see working out is the vibration of the odd firing order. You don't need to find room for a water tank. You need a half sized fuel tank and the other water. Even Bruce admits that distilled water would be best. Water is plentiful and distilling it is easy. If this engine got to the point that we saw it produced, distilling water is a happy problem. We'd have the same total fuel space in the car, just half of it being for water. We wouldn't have a cooling system so the car would actually get lighter and more simple.

Just remember 1 test result s worth more than 1000 expert opinions. To all the sceptics of the project, he's already made it work on a bench which at the very last proves the concept. Whether or not it can be made practical is another matter altogether but this has more potential than any other alternative engine design out there. Once you make this work, it would be easy to convert the gasoline side to diesl, biodiesel, hydrogen, etc...

Bruce, Congratulations on another fine piece of work.
If all the naysayers would spend their time and energy on positive input it would only help things move forward faster. James Burt

Distilling water takes a lot of energy, traditional water softening systems might be better for scale prevention, distilation would only be necessary in areas with and etremely high tds index water.

it would be a good idea to use the computer to prevent the steam cycle until the engine heats up, it would be a simple matter of calculating optimal volume of injection based on cylinder temp, volume, and compression ratio. ideally the water would be circulated in the engine block prior to injection, because the hotter the water going into the cylinder, the more heat during the cycle goes into boiling the water, which is a good thing(the water absorbs heat that would otherwise be lost through cylinder wall or radiator, and then releases the additional energy when it cycles)you recapture more energy when you heat a lot of almost boiling water to boiling than a little cold water to boiling.

and anyone who knows anyhing about chemistry would know that separating hydrogen and oxygen takes as much energy as is released by burning it, so no you havent discovered a new energy source

Great invention, not an answer tho'.
Too bad Mr.Crower is 75 years old already.

Even if this is determined not to be practical for semis and other small engines, just look at the possibilities on a ship where you are already producing distillate water. Or you would have enough room for an auxilliary system to collect the discharged vapors.